Audio interview with Alan Murray

Interview with Alan Murray concerning his journalistic career which covered the period of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, including incidents he reported on, meeting with many of the main individuals involved and the current political situation in Northern Ireland.

Talks about an early incident in career when he and a colleague were left in the newspaper building in Lower North Street after the street was evacuated after a bomb warning and told in no uncertain terms to remain in building by the Army. Goes on to discuss the deployment of the British Army in Northern Ireland (Operation Banner) and their presence being an everyday occurrence. The tit for tat nature of sectarian killings in the early seventies by Republicans and Loyalists is covered where a murder was occurring nightly. The PIRA's denial of sectarian killing and its aim to bring about the collapse of Stormont (NI parliament) and whether the IRA won or lost the conflict and the quality of their field craft and training is discussed. The attrition rate on the IRA compared to the Army and how the IRA struggled to replace top personnel killed, particularly after the Loughgall ambush in County Armagh in May 1987, when the SAS killed eight members of an active service unit (ASU) from the East Tyrone Brigade, one of the IRA's most feared groups. Views on Loyalist responses including attacking the IRA's 'soft underbelly' in Sinn Fein, particularly by the Mid Ulster UVF, under the Billy Wright. Alan discusses meeting and talking to Wright on around twelve occasions as a journalist. Character of Wright, and his impressions of him are discussed, his coolness, intelligence and caution. Wright's split from UVF over 1994 ceasefire and founding of the Loyalist Volunteer Force (LVF) and assassination inside the Maze prison by the Irish National Liberation Army (INLA). Suspicions over why the INLA were in the same H block and how guns smuggled into prison. Discusses what inspired him to go into journalism. Originally interested in sports writing and got job with now defunct Sunday News in Belfast, late 1969 early 1970. How he spent most of week with a senior reporter covering early Troubles disturbances. Only wrote sport articles at weekend. Spending every Saturday night for two months on the junction of Hooker Street/Crumlin Road in North Belfast in early 1970, to spend time with British soldiers there and report on instances. Problems of finding phone to get stories to office for morning paper. How it felt to be there when bottles thrown at soldiers/ soldiers responses to rioters. Compared to what was to come in next few years seen as 'Mickey Mouse stuff'. Atmosphere of next few years seen as frightening, formation of loyalist groups like UDA and their hostile attitude towards journalists. IRA more sophisticated in their use of the media to get message across - another decade before Loyalists saw advantage of the press to get story across. Major incidents from the Troubles such as Bloody Friday in July 1972, which he missed as was in Preston training as a court reporter. 1972 saw the highest death toll of the Troubles. 1973 worked Dublin for a year. 1974 back in Belfast working for the Irish Press. Warrenpoint ambush in and death of Lord Mountbatten on 27 August 1979, talked about and the feeling of not knowing what would happen next and where the next bomb would be. North and West Belfast seen as the cockpits of deaths - most occurred in these two areas. Discusses South Armagh as the most formidable IRA bastion and notable members and how the Army operated there and gathered information. Talks about the IRA 'Riding Two Horses' - the difficulty of both a military and political role at same time. Beginning of IRA moving towards peace from 1986. Attrition rate on IRA as well as infiltration of ranks by RUC Special Branch, Army intelligence and MI5. Hundreds recruited by intelligence services/ 'Super grass' trials in early 1980s and these as attempts to take apart Republican and Loyalist paramilitary organisations and their failure due to lack of corroborating evidence. Top IRA people such as Freddie Scappaticci, head of IRA internal security, working for Army intelligence and Special Branch. How a senior Special Branch officer informed him that many IRA men buried with full IRA military honours actually worked for Special Branch but IRA and families never knew and never would know this. Break in at Special Branch HQ in 2002 by IRA but only got code names. However, showed huge extent of the infiltration and possibility the IRA hid this as too embarrassing and too many people involved to investigate. 1986 split in the Provisional IRA over abstentionism - Sinn Fein taking up their seats in Stormont and in the Dáil Éireann in Dublin. Leading to breakaway Continuity IRA/ Republican Sinn Fein. Some he spoke to made allegations by them against leading Sinn Fein members, Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams as British informers, attempts to undermine PIRA/Sinn Fein's political direction. Dangerous period up to 1994 ceasefire, accusations against members speaking to unknown people, possibly police, taken very seriously. Cover ups in both Republican and Loyalist organisations of sexual abuse, money laundering and racketeering, more so on Loyalist side - particularly Jim Craig, Ulster Defence Association (UDA) quartermaster. Current crime gangs still running this type of operations, with previous links to paramilitaries. During Troubles most groups would have realised that certain members were involved in activities and holding back money. Discusses younger people glorifying older men's paramilitary past. Using paramilitary name to conduct illegal activity - cigarette smuggling but mainly drugs. PSNI belief that many crime gangs rooted in paramilitary organisations. Internal community justice - kneecapping - an accepted method of justice, particularly in Republican areas. Attitudes in these areas to drugs dealers one of no sympathy. Gangs now carrying out summary justice that would once have been done by the IRA. Talks about guns still being there. Decommissioning has happened but not all weapons surrendered. Guns coming in with drugs consignments. Possibility that in twenty years' time no one will speak of IRA, UVF, RHC and UDA as superseded by major crime gangs. Problems persist after Good Friday Agreement in that communities still very divided. Middle classes across society may be more united but in working class areas still division, particularly with the issue of parades, Belief that it is doubtful this division will end without fundamental change in society and institutions, but cannot see this happening. Advocating of integrated schooling, but still rare, and many obstacles to it currently. Discusses individuals from the Troubles period who have been influential or who have impressed. Billy Wright (UVF/LVF), John Hume of SDLP, David Trimble of the Ulster Unionist Party. Father Denis Faul and his opposition to the IRA; Johnny Adair, C Company commander, West Belfast Battalion, UDA. Discusses Gerry Adams and speaking to him, noting he was courteous, committed, clever, but no warmth or humour. Also how he felt safer going up the Falls Road to speak to Gerry Adams and Danny Morrison (head of Sinn Fein PR) than going up to the Shankill Road to speak with Loyalists. Notes how the IRA used public relations to their advantage and did not mind if a journalist was critical of what they had done. They might disagree, but no threats to life. However, after interviewing Continuity IRA man after 1986 split, Danny Morrison phoned to express displeasure that he had spoken to someone who had split from the Provisional's ranks - led to Sinn Fein no longer doing interviews with him. Compares Provisionals mentality here to totalitarianism - what he wrote was not the problem, rather reporting what an internal dissenter had said. Also mentions anger by UVF at a factual mistake in a piece he wrote. Re-iterates never a threat to life from IRA/ Sinn Fein but had to be careful with Loyalists. Mentions how Danny Morrison's' statement, in giving Sinn Fein's support to the IRA's campaign, exposed them to attack by Loyalist groups (see Billy Wright and Mid Ulster UVF above). Morrison's 'Armalite and ballot box' quote haunted him after Sinn Fein entered into mainstream politics. Thoughts on Danny Morrison personally as well as other press officers, Richard Macaulay and Joe Austin - all seen as personable and easy to talk to. Recalls Morrison saying on one occasion, referring to Sinn Fein 'it doesn't matter, the Army (IRA) will still call the shots' - if the Army Council objects, Sinn Fein will not do it. Discusses that some today still believe the IRA have not gone away and are still in charge, there is still an Army Council, perhaps in shadow form. Believes that the paramilitaries still have weapons to re-activate if need be, but hopes it never happens.